GRAVITY-CAPACITOR, REPORT OF SUCCESS From: "cliff" To: Subject: funny thing Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:09:16 -0700 I would not believed it, but this thing does have thrust. I have built it not to size but of to a smaller scale. The second attempt was built to scale. The third try was to build it larger but not to scale. Odd thing is, it still produces thrust that seems to be related to static potential. I have used wax paper with tin foil (hard to find), wax paper with house hold foil (easy to find) and lastly, paper dipped into a dielectric type bath to improve dielectric properties with aluminum foil. This last one did not work as well. Another try used mylar film with aluminum and copper foils. This worked the best although I did use just aluminum only with mylar film and found that copper produced another affect but now working on that issue. I have made a small one with x and x plates then with a mylar film between them thus making a stack of 150 plates total. Now this produces something more than just thust and I do not need such high voltages to get the thing to push 22lbs Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:28:52 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: Re: funny thing On Tue, 23 May 2000, cliff wrote: > I would not believed it, but this thing does have thrust. I have built Wow! What level of thrust? At what (approx) voltage? Could they lift their own weight? And aluminum DOES work? A couple of people on freenrg-L built small versions with aluminum, but they did nothing. Maybe they were too small. I found some tin, but haven't had time to get the shapes stamped out. If aluminum does work, then printshops can make these capacitors. Some printshops specialize in foil coatings (like on the titles of cheap romance novels.) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: funny thing Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:11:34 -0700 I am using a spring type weight scale. The later device with with mylar film between the plates weights in at an approximate 8lbs. The 150 plates are grouped in thirty (being a test before adding more layers). I have found that the metal foils must be smooth as possible. But so far this later device does have potential as an electric jet engine. I still am a bit puzzled on this thing. I am just a hobbyist in electronics and have made many electronic devices including pc board layout. Spent many thousands of dollars on software to aid in designing board and lots of money in silly projects. This one is as dumb as it gets, but I thought it might work as a vortex ion display if it was given a vacuum and a magnetic field. The aluminum foil with wax paper has a tiny thrust compared to the one I am working on now. At first after making 20 or so plates and then applying 100KV to them, it did not work. Almost disappointed, I continued to add more to the stack. By the time I got to 60 plates and applying only 25KV, there was a small pull. When I went to 75KV the pull stopped, this was due to the dialectic and was being broke down. I disasembled the whole thing and switched to plastic, at that time, the device would work up to my 75KV but now melting the plastic. Switching to mylar did the trick to 100KV, but really no big changes. Tin foil works better than aluminum and copper. I would like to try lead but unable to find a lead foil that is thin as tin foil. A friend of mine has made me foil from bismuth and magnezium powder of aprox 2 mills thick. (found this formula on the internet for discovered crashed UFO, although I do not beleive in UFO) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:25:58 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: RE: funny thing > board and lots of money in silly projects. This one is as dumb as it > gets, but I thought it might work as a vortex ion display if it was > given a vacuum and a magnetic field. To make a vortex, I've always wanted to try putting a "tornado box" into an argon-filled chamber, then making some plasma filaments inside with a small Tesla coil (like an "Eye of the Storm" sphere.) The tornado should twirl the plamsa into a visible vortex. If you use pure argon, no vacuum is needed, and the chamber can be plexiglas. > At first after making 20 or so plates and then applying 100KV to them, > it did not work. Did you use an electrostatic generator? If so, then the actual voltage would be much lower than 100KV, since the corona leakage acts as a load and pulls the voltage way down. I have a 3KV high-impedance dc meter, and I found that two layers of wax paper will spark across at only 1500VDC. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:47:37 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: RE: funny thing On Tue, 23 May 2000, cliff wrote: > I will try out your idea on the bag thing. I still think this is ion > propelled and not gravity, but I could be wrong. The materials I am using > and have used in the pass are just not making > sence. Also: when ions create lift, they do so by being repelled, which creates a jet of air. To lift a couple of pounds, the air jet would be violent and loud, like a leaf-blower. If the thrust is caused by pure charge repulsion with no wind, then it should be very small (like a fraction of an ounce.) A 200KV VandeGraaff sphere can lift pieces of foil, but it can't lift small heavy objects the size of soupcans. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: funny thing Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:49:36 -0700 The 100KV is from a static generator, you are probably correct in the much less than 100KV. I have also a telsla 100KV also from a kit. this does not work on this project as the whole thing will just glow blue, but the inside hole will have blueish green and dancing sparks. With 100KV DC the capacitor burns up, but with low current 100KV AC ranging from 1.27 through 1.22Khz though a 1000Meg restor is my source. With my latest device, I use no resistor, much lower voltages and seems to work best with static powered from the van-de-graph generator. Only one trouble with this is when turned off, there is plenty of power left, also the device still has some resident wind at the negitive end. I would like to know how it continues to operator after the power is shutdown? Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:11:40 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: RE: funny thing On Tue, 23 May 2000, cliff wrote: > 1.22Khz though a 1000Meg restor is my source. It gives a thrust with AC? Weird! > With my latest device, I use > no resistor, much lower voltages and seems to work best with static powered > from the van-de-graph generator. Only one trouble with this > is when turned off, there is plenty of power left, also the device still has > some resident wind at the negitive end. I would like to know how it > continues to operator after the power is shutdown? The VDG machine charges it up, and it will store a charge for quite some time. I estimate that the capacitor built by that "S" guy would measure about 0.5 microfarads. That's dangerous. If you charged it up for several minutes, it could electrocute you. Or if you shorted it out with a thin wire, it might make the wire explode. Is the thrust caused by a jet of wind? That "S" guy claimed that his version produced antigravity, and could lift 6KG (and levitate itself). To eliminate the wind and to measure only the gravity, put the device in a plastic bag. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:58:05 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: RE: funny thing On Tue, 23 May 2000, cliff wrote: > that the one made with aluminium did not > glow like this one under the same conditions, however I have not taken that > one appart an is still in my garrage. That one weighs 2lbs and pulls 1.5 lbs So it pulls 3.5 lbs? That would make a powerful "capacitor motor" (mount it on the edge of a horizontal wheel, and let it spin the wheel.) Or does it only create upwards thrust? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: funny thing Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:41:18 -0700 When use the VDG at 100KV as what the kit was built from, the device does not work, it floats down to the test bed floor and then it will spark to the simi-metal ground. By tilting on its side, there is a breeze of air. As the device is floating, I have not put my hand or notice any large amount of air flow under the device. With the lights off, there is a faint bluish glow from the center. I assume that would be ions. Also I have noted that the one made with aluminium did not glow like this one under the same conditions, however I have not taken that one appart an is still in my garrage. That one weighs 2lbs and pulls 1.5 lbs of weight plus its own. The 2lbs one could be re-assembled to clean things up a bit. The plates do need to be smooth and no sharp edges. I am a bit surprized that the one made from tin worked as good as it did, due to the edges and corners. From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: funny thing Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:47:50 -0700 I will try out your idea on the bag thing. I still think this is ion propelled and not gravity, but I could be wrong. The materials I am using and have used in the pass are just not making sence. Oh yea, yes this does work on AC after being charged first with 5KV static. The device does not work with tesla coil. I suspect frequency may have something to do with it. When applying low frequency to it, it does vibrate but to my surprise, not at the frequency of the input. From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: funny thing Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:30:43 -0700 I have not put this device on a wheel, but it does provide a thrust on its' side. I am working on another one to see if it is possible to use it as a hover sled. Just a note when making this this thing from aluminum foil, the foils must be place very carefully, the alignment plays a great role on its' operation, so it seems. My first few attempts failed and I was ready to throw it away saying this is just a capacitor with a hole in the middle. The only reason I kept trying was the intriguing 9 poles pointing inwards. Why 9? how about 12 or 3 or none?. because 12 did nothing, and 3 did nothing, 9 did little and still there was the shaping of the poles. If you think this silly project took a lot of my time, it would be YES it did take a lot of time and a few gray hairs too. As for this being made public, I do not know why noone has made this in the past. Perhaps the same things I went through with no results. As for the power, use DC and not static charge for starters. This will keep you on the right track then use a VDG for your test, at least this worked for me. When you get it to slightly work, you then need to change its grouping. I still think this is not gravity, but I maybe wrong. I have yet to take it outside my backyard, this may scare my neighbors due to the light show or just the oddness of it floating up without wires or cables for it to suspend on. Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:02:45 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: RE: funny thing On Tue, 23 May 2000, cliff wrote: > Just a note when making this this thing from aluminum foil, the foils must > be place very > carefully, the alignment plays a great role on its' operation, so it seems. Once the print shop can stamp out foil patterns, I can make loads of them. If aluminum foil works even a little bit, it will be good for the quick and dirty experiments. Much cheaper than tin. Give a yell if you want to buy a few thousand of them. > As for this being made public, I do not know why noone has made this in > the past. Perhaps the > same things I went through with no results. That's probably it. I myself had the plans since 1992 or so, but never tried building one. It says that tin is *required*, and I didn't dare try using aluminum foil (all that work, and it might be the wrong metal!) I eventually found some tin, but then procrastination set in. And I never was quite certain that the whole thing wasn't just somebody's joke. > As for the power, use DC and not > static charge for starters. You mean low voltage DC? After all, a DC power supply at 50KV with a big series resistor is the same as a 50KV "static" machine. Both are DC. And both are "static". > I still think this > is not gravity, but I maybe wrong. I have yet to take it outside my > backyard, this may scare my > neighbors due to the light show or just the oddness of it floating up > without wires or cables for it to suspend on. Heh. Put it in an inflated plastic garbage bag, and tell and curious onlookers that it's full of helium! That way you won't have to explain anything unless it lifts you up into the air. Then tell them that it's special, "extra-light" helium! I have some ideas of things to try. For example, the inside of the capacitor is symmetrical. It doesn't "know" which way to thrust. Maybe the forces only appear because there is a little accidental asymmetry in the layers. If I stack it up like this: (+) foil 2 layers waxpaper (-) foil four layers waxpaper (+) foil 2 layers waxpaper (-) foil four layers waxpaper ... then maybe the force will be WAY bigger. Here's another possibility: (+) foil waxpaper with a hole (-) foil waxpaper withOUT a hole (+) foil waxpaper with a hole (-) foil waxpaper withOUT a hole If ion-flow creates the force, then it might be good to get rid of every other waxpaper hole. This will force the ions to flow lengthwise through the device, rather than up-down-up-down as they do when all layers have holes. The way it is now, the +- layers might fight with the -+ layers, and only the small, accidental differences in the stacking gives an output force. If we can weaken the -+ layers (by using more waxpaper between them), then maybe the +- layers would "win", and the overall force would become dangerously large. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: funny thing Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:55:10 -0700 Looks like that patter will work, It has 9 poles like mine, when I tried to use 3 or 12 poles the device did not work. From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: funny thing Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 20:07:42 -0700 I like that idea of having no hole wax paper. I am using mylar cause I have three large roles of it that where donated to me after seeing this device made from wax paper. I and a few friends are in the process of making nickel plating right onto the mylar for ease of assembly. we found nickel works better than aluminum but this time the nickle plating will be about 1 mil thick. If sucessful, I will make a small one with its own power supply. We think it may lift itself plus 0.25lbs, nice toy to fit in your hand running from a hearing aid battery and perhaps safe enough not to chatter teeth. Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:02:17 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: RE: funny thing Is it OK if I post your capacitor messages to the freenrg-L forum? Others are building this capacitor, and they could use the info! I can strip off the emall address stuff if you don't want people to contact you. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: funny thing Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:05:49 -0700 I hope you do well in making this funny thing. I hope to continue when I have the time. I have also shown a local science teacher, he has a Phd and really knows his stuff. I also have a few friend of mine at Offit AFB north of Lancaster CA. where I use to work for NASA. My friend there still works there even after Pres. Cliton. of which I lost my job during his so called cut backs. Never liked him since. However, my friend and I will be meeting each other sometime next month on this device. Should get some attention or at lease a eyebrow. Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 20:08:28 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: RE: funny thing On Thu, 25 May 2000, cliff wrote: > I hope you do well in making this funny thing. I hope to continue when I > have the time. I started cutting out hundreds of tin squares. If it works, it should be easy to make several capacitors, since the print shop can punch them out quickly. > I have also shown a local science teacher, he has a Phd and > really knows his stuff. Watch out. If he gets "dollar signs in the eyes" disease, that means trouble. People in the fringe sciences typically have their discoveries destroyed by money, and by paranoia/secrecy it brings. It's like discovering a deposit of gold, and the snakes and vultures come running. I personally watched this happen to two separate people recently (Greg Watson and his magnetic ramp, and Norm Wootan and the MRA device.) It keeps happening over and over, yet EVERY SINGLE TIME the victim says "it can't happen to me." And then it does. The only cure I know of it the way of science: publish openly, keep no secrets. > I also have a few > friend of mine at Offit AFB north of Lancaster CA. where I use to work for > NASA. The military can actually stop you from working on an invention. This is not just paranoia, it's a common occurrence. Adam Trombly tried to patent a homopolar generator design in 1992 or so, and the military immediately slapped a secrecy order on it. Around 1959, one of the original inventors of the laser took his ideas to the military. They made them classified, but the guy had no security clearance, so he was excluded from working on it. Before you show this stuff to professionals and the military, I recommend that you do some research and find out how other inventors were screwed over in the past. Your greatest enemy is the idea that "it can't happen to me." If you don't know how to protect yourself, then "it" probably will happen to you. If you want to talk to Greg Watson about his experiences, I can look up his email address. > Should get some attention or at lease a eyebrow. Raised eyebrows are safe. It's when outsiders start taking you seriously that the trouble starts. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:50:37 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: lead foil On Tue, 23 May 2000, cliff wrote: > like to try lead but unable to find a lead foil that is thin as tin foil. A Radio Shack sells lead foil! It is 1/4" metal tape for burglar alarm tape on glass windows. It might be hard to make the capacitor plates from 1/4" strips, and the adhesive might insulate the strips from each other unless you use high voltage which would leap sparks across the adhesive. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From: "cliff" To: Subject: capacitor motor Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:43:37 -0700 I have just finished part two of my project using two capacitor motors. Question: Does the positive end of two CMs repel? Here is where the CM adds more questions, assuming that like charges repel and opposites attract, the CM repels on the positive end right? Wrong!??? Using two CMs with the positive charged ends pointing to each other perpendicular to earth gravity axis, the CM attract each other. The CMs are suspended using 100LB test fishing line and both are using there own power supplies. There are no physical connections between nor common pathways for any power charge. Using a static charge meter, there is no measurable charge difference between each other. If positioned as where the negative charged side is pointing to the positive charged side of the 2nd CM there is a slight repelling and also a static charge difference between the CM. Now when the two CMs are pointing to sky and the same suspention with added spring weight scales, the CM behave diferently. The positive sides now repel just a bit and a charge differance takes place in about 10 to 12 seconds reaching several KV in less than 30 seconds. When the oposites charged side are facing each other, the same behavor take place. Placing the two CMs next to each other, the CM seem to have no affect regardless of the polarity. So far I see some kind of gravity effect and perhaps can be a means to measure gravity this way. Also these tests are using nickle plated mylar sheets with 9 poles. These are easy to make using a stencil and a paint brush on mylar. nickle plating can be applied to any plastic of metal using a plating kit. Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:28:55 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: RE: funny thing Here's another person who's building "Electric Rocket" (see his message below). He used mylar, but it didn't create thrust. He has put his results on a webpage. I wonder if the speed of the voltage turn-on is important? Do you still get a large thrust you turn on the voltage slowly? If you connect the HV wires to the capacitor suddenly, there is a "snap" sound, and a high current flows for an instant. Maybe the capacitor needs a "kick" at the start. If so, then many inventors will see no thrust, since they built a good capacitor, but they unknowingly turned the power on too slowly. I'm still trying to get my tin patterns stamped by a die-cut shop. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L Tony Colacchio I have also built an electric rocket using high grade WC Mylar (200 gauge) with a dielectric strength of 7.7kV. I used tin foil as the conductor plates. 390 tin and 780 mylar layers. I used the specs given by Dr. S on the first success report. The layers were cut by a professional die cutting company, and have no creases or sharp corners. I have conducted one test so far, charging the device with 1kV. I did not notice any effect. I just received a 100kV generator and will conduct high voltage tests within the next few days. I have been posting my results on my web page at: http://www.imagineanything.com/energy/rocket.htm Please either e-mail me with the new success reporters e-mail or send him my address and story so that we may help each other. Since he has achieved success with mylar, and I have built a high grade mylar device, a dialogue would surely be beneficial to both of us. Thank you for your time and attention. From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: funny thing Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 08:19:01 -0700 from reading his results, you may have a point. I have not tried using voltages less than 150KV supply where I am using resisters to step the voltage down so not to short out the device. I will have to build a voltage divider that will have his 7KV then try my device. Thanks for this input. Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:35:32 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: Re: capacitor motor Is it OK if I send your message to other experimenters? Or do you want to keep things private? Or I could send your message to others, but delete your email address. That way we could get the word out, but strangers wouldn't be able to contact you. On Sun, 11 Jun 2000, cliff wrote: > I have just finished part two of my project using two capacitor motors. > Question: Does the positive end of two CMs repel? > Here is where the CM adds more questions, assuming that like charges repel > and > opposites attract, the CM repels on the positive end right? Wrong!??? > Using two CMs with the positive charged ends pointing to each other > perpendicular to earth gravity axis, the CM attract each other. Weird! Is the force very large (like many ounces of pull?) ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: capacitor motor Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 08:29:03 -0700 It is ok to make this public, thanks. Now that I am hooked on this thing to find out how it works, my colleagues and I are working on a vacuum chamber to house this for a test. Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:21:53 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: RE: capacitor motor On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, cliff wrote: > It is ok to make this public, thanks. OK, check out this website: http://www.amasci.com/caps/capwk2.txt I posted our correspondence so other people might try building this device. > Now that I am hooked on this thing to > find out how it works, my colleagues and I are working on a vacuum chamber > to house this for a test. It puts out 20lbs thrust? Hey, a hair-dryer only puts out less than 1lb thrust, yet it creates a huge jet of air. If your capacitor doesn't put out massive wind (like 60MPH air flow), then the thrust isn't caused by wind. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 22:52:12 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: dunk in oil? On Wed, 14 Jun 2000, cliff wrote: > It is ok to make this public, thanks. Now that I am hooked on this thing to > find out how it works, my colleagues and I are working on a vacuum chamber > to house this for a test. If the capacitor needs air to generate thrust for some reason, then a simple test would be to submerge the whole capacitor in a small bucket of oil (transformer oil, or even vegetable oil.) If the thrust goes away, then you'll know that air is important, if only because it needs corona discharge for some reason, rather than air-jets. But if the thrust DOESN'T go away while under the oil, then you can crank the capacitor voltage WAY UP and you won't get sparks unless it blows through the plastic directly. I've built HV capacitors for tesla coils, and I found that sparks usually run for long distances along the surface of the plastic and jump between the plates that way. Putting the capacitor under oil will stop this, and let the voltage rise way high. But if the oil makes the thrust go away, then the greasy capacitor is ruined, and it will be a big cleanup-job to remove the oil from between the plastic layers so the air can get to the plates again. Better not try this with your best capacitor, eh? ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From: "Cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: mail from last month Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:28:00 -0700 Update: This capacitor does have one major and critical design problem that I have found to be a success or failure. The tabs lengths and the tabs connections. Using tin plates vers aluminuim plates do have an impact due to the thickness and using different dialetric material will also change thickness of a small group of 40 plates or so. Grouping may not be important but, if by chance the tabs are of equal in lengths and by connecting the tabs they are still equal in lengths, the device will NOT work. Tabs from power common source to plates are extremely critical. By "common source" I mean where the first tab and the external power source juction, here is the trick part. First tab has the shortest distance to the 9 pole plate (a 12 pole design works very well also), the second plate will have a longer connection to its plate etc.. Do NOT exceed tab lengths of 650Mils, this "capacitor" does generate a EHF frequency that we just found that we think is a harmonic of earth gravity wave. To maintain this lenght, groups of 30 or 60 plates or what ever your design allows will help this. I will be sending a drawing of this design later. The groups also have a length per common connection, if your design is working, you will have a close working model and can be "tuned" to have geater strength. We have a model that is only 4" in diameter and is working enough to pull 23grams of weight when charged. This little model will continue to pull even without external power for an hour or so. Question is, how does it work? We think it is this lately discoverd EHF frequency and perhaps the slightly detected scaler signature that it is producing. We are also looking into the surface area of the plates to see what impact this will have if this design is changed. Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 13:10:16 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: length of tabs On Thu, 15 Jun 2000, cliff wrote: > Update: > This capacitor does have one major and critical design problem that I have > found to be a success or failure. The tabs lengths and the tabs connections. Ha! I just KNEW something like this must be important. The plates are symmetrical with no overall bias between + and -. But there HAS to be a bias somewhere, otherwise the device wouldn't know which way to thrust. I was thinking, perhaps capacitor won't work right unless the the layers are powered up in sequence one at a time, instead of all at once. Rather than altering the length of the tabs, maybe you could solder some low-ohms resistors in series with each tab. Make each resistor in the stack a bit bigger than the last (like 1ohm, 2ohm, 3... etc.) Have you ever built a "blinker" circuit using an NE-2 bulb, capacitor, and resistor? Well, the inside of the gravity-capacitor acts like that. The sharp edges of the foil plates creates corona-discharge which acts like an NE-2 bulb. It has capacitance. And it has a bit of resistance in series between the plates and the power supply. The whole thing might behave as a vast array of neon bulbs which all blink at VERY high frequency. This would create all kinds of high-frequency waves which race around between the plates. If it works like this, then dunking it in oil will kill the thrust, since it squelches the corona discharges caused by the sharp edges of the plates. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 13:20:03 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Subject: RE: mail from last month On Thu, 15 Jun 2000, cliff wrote: > This little > model will continue to pull even without external power for an hour or so. > Question is, how does it work? When it's unpowered, it might still have a high DC charge because of corona discharge. When it is unpowered, try shorting out the capacitor terminals for a moment and see if the thrust goes away. Even if you always use AC only, the inside of the capacitor can act like a rectifier, and it can become charged with DC. Why? Because corona discharge can act like an old-fashioned Mercury Rectifier. When high voltage is present, AC can accidentally get turned into DC by sparks and by the leakage from sharp objects. People who build Tesla coils know about this effect: even though the tesla coil is AC, the plastic coating of the main coil will become highly charged with DC "static electricity." The sparks from the tesla coil act like a gas-rectifier, and a bit of direct current is spewed out into the atmosphere when the Tesla coil is operating. It collects on nearby objects. Sometimes if you put your hand on the main coil of a Tesla coil and then touch ground, you'll get a big shock. This happens hours after the Tesla coil was last used! The charged plastic of the main coil acts as a leyden jar, and your hand acts as the other plate. On the other hand, if the thrust continues even with the capacitor terminals shorted together, then I have no explanation. ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: Response from FREENRG-L Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:28:49 -0700 I will get some photos of this CM soon, as for the dime test, can you say sparks? Placing metal object inside the hole will stop it from working and sparks will fly. Placing a plastic bic pen outside tube only (no ink or tip) will do nothing except a slight glowing around the letters of the bic pen's tube even though the letters were rubbed off. (corona photography) From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: Gravity Capacitor Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:21:40 -0700 I have let a friend barrow my little GC and using his own 200KV VDG that he bought from Edmond scientific, he was unable to get it to work. But on my 200KV VDG that I built that is a copy of his, the GC works fine. The set ups in my garage and his are practically the same. He is using my completed GC including the hookup wires and resistors. He brought it back and we hooked it up in my garage and it worked just fine and even lifted itself up. Then taken it back to his place and again nothing happened. Do you have any ideas on this odd puzzle? From: William Beaty [mailto:billb@eskimo.com] Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 4:32 PM Subject: RE: Gravity Capacitor On Fri, 23 Jun 2000, cliff wrote: > GC will not just be a odd toy that works "kinda". If it responds to something under the ground, then maybe you can start an oil exploration business like that guy at Pinnacle Oil. http://www.plant.ca/Content/970526/energy/03.html The "Stress field detector" used by Pinnacle Oil is a fringe science device, but details still remain secret. They fly it across the landscape in an airplane. Once I tried the "Wilbur Smith fishline", but the needle never budged while driving around Seattle. See http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/bindet.html ((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb@eskimo.com http://www.amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits science projects, tesla, weird science Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: Gravity Capacitor Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:41:47 -0700 Does this mean the GC must be portable and completely, and with its own power supply so as to move it place to place? Ahhha. This little strange thing just got expensive! Building this takes a lot of time and patience, not to mention that the originally I had to find tin foil. Ordering tin foil was not cheap, and then there was the layers of wax paper (now using mylar), and then to top it all, the assembling and re-assembling (yes, the first two tries failed) the many layers of plates. And then the watching it just to show signs of prommise, then watching it catch on fire as it shorted out, making popping and loud cracking noises. Many hours and days later, a new one back on the bench just to watch it blow up! Ahhh! But now after a few built, I now have to build a portable power unit so my friend can play with it. But if this one blows up, I think I will go on to something else. maybe. From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: Gravity Capacitor Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:32:43 -0700 I will be putting together photos of this device. I have some drawings and some early picture of the first many attempts and was at one time about to through them out when one day the GC started to work. I hopefully will post them to you when I get re-organized at bit. Thanks for your suggestions. From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: Gravity Capacitor Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:10:58 -0700 Castle Rock is not a mystery as most percieves, he did most of his work with only a few selected people, his moving of large coral blocks were moved using ropes in a special net/pulley arrangement. But that is another story, and is little known, but is poorly documented when you visit Castle Rock. However, we will be either building a VDG just for this project or taking mine over to his place, as you have suggested. Who knows, perhaps this GC has a potential as a gravity dip or hole detector and may turn out to be a geometric shift or earthquake detector or something like that, thereby this GC will not just be a odd toy that works "kinda". Thanks for your feedback. You may have stumbled onto something that could be very usefull. I have played with many coil designs that said to have gravity affects but turned out to be usefull antenna designs. Thanks again. From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: RE: Gravity Capacitor Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:34:14 -0700 Sounds like another constrution project, but if it produce an end product that helps explain this deivce, I guess we will do it. Thanks for this information, we have found also that the gravity capacitor (GC) generates frequency that can be recreated using a more stable means and hopefully less voltages. This GC when working is a bit unhealthy due to the power. We used a Tesla coil then rectified it to DC using many high voltage TV sticks rectifiers then connected to the GC with better results. Mobility was the challenge here and also the voltage was much less this way with improved results. BTW the voltage needed this way was only 4KV but the kick is 12KV and for some reason, our small HV power supply using iron core transformer does not work. We think this has something to do with starting voltage to operating voltage fall time (kick). From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: e-mail Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:32:23 -0700 Dear William, I have been getting a few e-mails on this gravity capacitor. Not that I care much, but my findings on this GC is interesting similar to some information on using a so called inductor idea. Therefore I have stopped working on this GC and will have our photos of our results e-mailed to you so as you may post them as you like. Our GC became expensive to go much further. My friend and I have made some improvements on this GC with some good results, but we have turned our attention to this weird inductor having a much more scientific groundings to stand on when it comes to how this antigravity thing works. We are thankful to your inputs and the odd science to add to our experiments. We have gone over some of the Keely's notes and found them to be a great value in our hypothesis in our lab. We have now a few of our college's helping us with these devices in giving us a hand in building/fabricating these devices. Again, thanks for your support and input. From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: results of test of GC Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 21:35:10 -0700 Dear William, These are the results of our tests that were carried out in a space environment chamber where NASA uses this for testing their space capsules and other things that will go into space. We had 5 days to use this facility and were able to keep a tight lid on this project from peeping eyes. We have forgotten about the time it takes to create a space environment in the space chamber. In a vacuume the GC does still work although with a measurable difference. This could be from the vacuume whereby the plates are now void of air of which we tried our best to eleminate while building this GC. The device will not work very well if at all if the plates are not pressed durring the building process. Our GC has 2,330 plates and taking about a month of building this thing. We used bee's wax under heat to make sure there was no air between plates and dielectric. When in a vacuume, the device produces a large amount of Ions however strangely not a very high charge. There is no movement of ions, just clusters of ions on the positive side and what appears to be in the vacinity of the 9 poles surrounding the device. This device does produce microwave electromagitic field that sometimes is modulated but as of yet do not know why. This modulating frequency is the 12th overtone of a single metal plate, a bit puzzling on this due that the plates are pressed tightly about 10 lbs per square inch. The power supply is generator source using a tesla coil to a high voltage DC source for ease of control and the "kick" start voltage what seems to be needed to get this device to work. The kick voltage starts from 0 volts to 800 volts with a rise time of 20 microseconds and the running voltage is 3,500 volts running less than 2 milliamps. The vacuume has made our GC work better, again we think this is due to the vacuume chamber. The GC now creates a so called thrust of 36.3 pounds of work, that is 1.2 pounds more than the device. The 9 poles of each plate do generate an oscillation much like a magnetron and does ring when hit on it side. This is what we have so far. We can not tell when this was done due to the time and equipment used, however we will not be making any more similar test in the future. Funny thing though, this GC has over 200 times the thrust of stacked glass plates with metal foil between them like our home made capacitor. We met a couple of people here that build one for a tesla coil, their capacitor measures .0025uf and calculated voltage of 60KV. Their stack is only 16 layers where ours GC is measured at 1.472uf with much less voltage. Given size and area of their capacitor, we thought we test theirs also. With the same power source. Now our question is what is with the poles in the GC? We will soon have the help of a scientists of which we call "OZ" and hopefully we might come up with something. EOF From: "cliff" To: "William Beaty" Subject: odd stuff Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 05:36:38 -0700 I have given my GC over to a friend to have him work on it and see if he could come up with some ideas on how to make this work as the described "capacitor rocket". So far the GC gains weight when adding more layers without any change in thrust. He has tried to make one with as little as 8 layers and unable to get his to work at all. I would like to mention also that the GC and perhaps the power source have had made some interesting "effects" happen around my home. Like hearing bumps in the night when I know noone is downstairs. I know this sounds a bit crazy, but these strange happenings stopped a few days after I have stopped working on this GC. Do you have anyone working on this or perhaps similar odd device that have had strange ghost like affects? This is nerve racking and has kept me up at nights wondering if there is a intruder. Please remove my name from your web site, you may keep the comments like you have with Mr."S". It isn't that I do not like to have some e-mail me direct, but it may cause someone to break-in my home. Call me paranoid, but lately when working on this GC, I have some sounds coming from my lab that can scare me white. Thanks for your web site for all the information on it, it does make me curious on some fringe science that makes one look at things another perspective and to keep an open mind.